@RagingBull - Saul was a spiritist and eventually got killed by God (or did he commit suicide - it's something in that nature). So if they're comparing themselves to Saul now, well, they know who they are and what they're into.
Anony Mous
JoinedPosts by Anony Mous
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18
Brother with "Apostate Leaning" not kicked out yet?...
by RagingBull ina few sundays ago, i noticed a brother who rarely comes to the hall anymore (my attendance is sketchy anyway) even though his wife still does.
he had a full on goatee, and his wife has expressed to other sisters that he's just "trusting in the bible and not the organization so much".
the elders must know of this b/c his father-n-law is an elder in our congregation.
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55
sincere question .....What could make you believe in God ?
by caliber inplease discuss why you don't believe in god and that which could convince you to believe in god ??
?.
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Anony Mous
If he told me personally (or publically) gave proof of his existence and said he wasn't the god-of-war from the bible and explained what his purpose was.
Simple really.
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260
Are you sure leaving the JW religion has made your life better?. Lurkers think twice
by mankkeli inon this forum, i have carefully read most of the experiences of those who left the jw religion, i have even read experiences that have dated back to 2001, i have read the different circumstances surrounding their exits and what ensued upon leaving.
for the majority, i observed they are better remainning in the religion than leaving.
what benefit is there to strain family relationship because you want to be free?, please tell me, of what value is that freedom?,.
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Anony Mous
You can live your life as a coward pining away for what could've been in a false religious organization or you can live, truly live in freedom as in freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Yes it has been a rough patch to get through at first but after that it's a lot better. Your family may see (if they open their eyes) that you're not that bad of a person. You will get to know a LOT more people. I always thought I was not attractive and nobody wanted to be my friend in the JW organization because a) the choices are severely limited (1000 to 1) and b) it's hard to find somebody among the JW you can both trust and that can understand you and accept you for who you are even if there is a difference in belief system.
I was raised in the 'truth' and married twice:
- I never before found women that really wanted to talk to me just as friends and that weren't afraid of getting in trouble for being with me (even in public settings) without anyone else
- I never had open discussions about religion, faith, science and politics. They were always severely curtailed on both ends between friends and family as saying the wrong things can get you in trouble. I've had some almost every day now.
- I feel free to express my opinion and if I don't like something, I say so or if I want to leave a party or not, I do so, I do so without anyone disapproving or feeling disrespected.
- I never had the opportunity to meet people to hang out with that show in bunches just to go get a drink and listen to a band and talk and meet new people
- I've never seen the raw beauty in the art form of some movies be it horror or suspense or comedy because they were "R-rated" or "unrated" and thus not "wholesome"
- I started an account on a dating website and within 2 weeks I had over 100 visitors, 20 conversations, 10 back and forth discussions and 5 dates. I was promoted to the "hot" section which was a huge boost for my self-esteem.
- My wife loosened up towards me being an atheist and ex-JW and we're now talking about getting back together. This was due to the discussions with one of her work mates.
- I've discovered things about myself that have long been locked up in suppressed memories and dark fantasies. I noticed certain things that felt natural to me but were taboo among JW's are perfectly acceptable in the 'world' out there.
- I feel happier alltogether as I no longer believe in the depressing shape of the world. Yeah, things are bad out there and cruel but they're not as bad as it seems, things have been getting better the past few centuries.
- I feel happier knowing that the end is not coming tomorrow and none of my family is going to be destroyed at the onset of a vague prophecy.
- I can choose my friends, have a lot more of them, have a lot more variety (bisexual, homosexual, polyamorists, transsexual, atheists, jews, catholics, agnostics, mock satanists, pastafarians) and they're in my own age group as well
- I don't feel looked down upon by a hierarchy of men or unworthily praised to high heavens by a group of women I'm supposed to dominate.
- I'm not discriminated against because I'm in the 'wrong' skin color congregation or because I have a mixed marriage and child.
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85
Hello--new to the witnesses...and you
by LKM injust wanted to introduce myself.
i went to the kh for the first time 2 weeks ago...and will go again tomorrow.
i don't believe anything witnessy...(i was raised in the assembly of god church and now the closest thing i "do" with religion is yoga or sometimes the buddhist temple).... but the man i'm in love with is a df'd jw (we've been together for 6 years).... and he wants to get reinstated just to talk to his family again (i can assure you he does not believe it).... and he wants his family to accept me because we are about to get married... so, i'm going to meetings...its very interesting, but only because it shows me more about how he was raised.
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Anony Mous
I have tried in the past to go back for family relationships and it didn't work. They expect very specific obedience and no grain of doubt or questioning is allowed. You're a women so you're regarded even lower than him. If they sense anything wrong they won't reinstate him.
If anything, if his family doesn't know about you and your relationship and nobody else does, it would be better for him to not tell anyone anything about it and you stay away from it totally, this will minimize the surface on which mistakes can be made. Be careful about any daily/nightly encounters as people may be following him (or you) around if they feel something is up.
The way I have dated wordly girls in the past (that's an offense in their books) after being found out was to simply tell them that I have broken up with them and be a lot more careful about who is following me around or what I talk about. In the end if he's wanting to lie about his faith, he should be able to lie about you two as well.
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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Anony Mous
Christians are such an idiots. Christianity has brought us the dark ages, Holy Wars, the inquisition, Hitler, Jehovah's Witnesses, prevented perfectly good science (Galileo, Newton, Darwin and many others were censored to some extent), why would you even want to believe in a set of things that have done nothing good for us
Well, when you die and come back to tell me that... then I'll take your word for it... um, yeah ;)
In the meantime, I will take the word of Christ and God.
This is basically a tautology going into an appeal to false authority. Both arguments have already been extensively discussed and debunked both here and in scientific arguments.
The burden of proof is on you to prove that a) there is an afterlife and b) that god/christ exist and the bible is it's infallible word.
So why BLAME God?
Atheists do not blame God since he doesn't exist, you're using a false argument. We blame you for believing in it and offloading your responsibilities towards your communities for the past, present and future on such figure. The statement of fact is: if a benevolent, omnipotent God exists he would not allow suffering. This is undisputable since you cannot be both omnipotent and benevolent and allow suffering. To be benevolent you should help those in your power to help and since he is omnipotent and omniscient he has no excuse for either not knowing or not doing so. And all your other arguments are unsatisfactory and in a sense you yourself are blaming God while trying to vindicate him.
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10
CD-rom
by Justitia Themis in.
so...i'm still working on my paper for law school regarding jws and the mature minor doctrine, and i am in desperate need of the most recent (or relatively recent) cd-rom so i can document my sources.
if anyone knows of a link or is willing to part with an anctual cd, please, please contact me.
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Anony Mous
Come on, Google it: http://watchtowerlibraryformac.info/
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117
Is homosexuality ever justifiable? I say YES!!!
by TimothyT inin the january 2012 awake, pages 28-29 there is another article about homosexuality.. .
the writers argue that genetics, the environment, and sexual abuse do not justify homosexuality.
the bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong and is an abhorrent sin.
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Anony Mous
Hey TimothyT,
I have my own "problems" with my sexuality, you could say even 'orientation'. They're not really problems though, we're just conditioned to believe we are wrong or bad because we do not fit in a certain category 80% of our neighbors fit in. If they're honest with themselves, most have pondered about it at some point in their lives. I would say, my orientation fits 40% of the population but they're still conditioned to believe that to do so is wrong.
The bible contradicts itself in that matter as it does in a lot of matters. I don't know why you continue clinging to a set of believes that is clearly morally wrong. Again, seek help, seek people of like mind, stop trying to adjust yourself to your JW family or friends - they will not accept you for who you are, only if you fit in their mold will they accept you.
You are gay, great this is quite common in the animal world. I'm something else, great, this is quite common too. The bible condemns it, well, that's great, nobody cares about the bible anymore, if we did, we would have a lot less people in this world because they would all be stoned to death. Science tells you that it is neither unusual nor wrong, either the religious zealots have to accept the facts or they will remain ignorant and idiots forever about a lot of things.
It is common though to have your anxiety and panic attacks about it. Get professional help if it's bothering you. Talk to your new friends in your environment, they will certainly try to understand and help you. For every 1 witness that does not accept you there are 999 others of which 60% (if you live in the US) or 599.4 people will accept you for who you are. So go ahead, you have the validation of 600 people for every witness family member you lost.
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10
CD-rom
by Justitia Themis in.
so...i'm still working on my paper for law school regarding jws and the mature minor doctrine, and i am in desperate need of the most recent (or relatively recent) cd-rom so i can document my sources.
if anyone knows of a link or is willing to part with an anctual cd, please, please contact me.
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31
Sitting Still at Meetings has Become an Impossibility
by venusinfauxfurs insince i know the truth about jw, and still have to go to meetings for family reasons (and because i don't want to leave my friends, either) i get so sick in my chair in the hall.
i can't pay attention, i can't sit still knowing it's all such a waste of time and a big fat lie.
i get weird symptoms like: the feeling that i'm going to almost pass out, very sweaty or very cold, and weak legs though i'm sitting down, and the urge to get up and run away.
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Anony Mous
I'm out now (still a baptized JW though) and I'm getting those too. They're basically panic attacks and anxiety attacks induced by the irrational fears you were brainwashed with. The cult basically tells you all this stuff is going to happen when you leave them or when the end comes and when you have certain feelings to "flee from the devil" or that you're in a "dangerous situation" etc. They use fear and guilt as emotional tools in order to do as they say. Now that you don't have that control anymore, your flight-or-fight response kicks in at seemingly random times.
What I have noticed is short-term memory loss, repressed memories returning and even altered memories, issues with sexuality and being very impulsive, hyperdefensive and sensitive to people staring.
Here is a site that I just found: http://www.rickross.com/reference/recovery/recovery3.html
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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Anony Mous
It's fairly simple and the above posts are going off topic:
a) God exists but does not want to help anyone. He takes pleasure in suffering (seemingly the OT god and most other war gods), I don't want to serve such god.
b) God exists but cannot help anyone. He is powerless and weak, maybe human (seemingly the NT god and most other non-war gods).
c) God exists and will help some people in the future. He doesn't give any clear evidence though as to whom those people are or when he will do so. He seemingly clouds the evidence of his own existence and plans in order to make a selection of the most irrational people that still believe in him, he takes pleasure in such confusion (seemingly the god people these days have hypothesized the OT and NT talks about, the god humanized by modern religion to make it palatable in the age of science, reason and understanding).
d) God doesn't exist (what everyone with rational thinking comes eventually to the conclusion when pondering the above choices)
Who this god or gods are is irrelevant, everyone has their own irrational belief about it. There could be one god or multiple gods or no god, there is no evidence to any of the points and for every point of evidence you get from your own holy books, I will raise you someone else's holy book that contradicts it. Therefore, I go by the evidence and Occam's razor tells me that I should make the fewest assumptions given the evidence so I make no assumptions about any god and simply say he/she/they doesn't exist unless demonstrated.
I'm not saying you can't believe in a god or gods but if you do believe in one your thinking should not be clouded to the extent that you actively dismiss evidence and facts that goes contrary to your belief system. Eg. believe in god and creation but when the facts and proof of evolution comes up you should be able to discern that maybe your religious leaders and holy books were wrong about some things. And yes, there are hypothesis using quantum physics that can be proven with mathematics that the Universe came into existence out of nothing, they will be tested within the next few years if not already done so, if those hypothesis become theory any god that created the universe will officially be dead.